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David Oks's avatar

This is really poorly argued, to the point where it's clear you don't really know what you're talking about.

Yes, there was generally no legal category that distinguished between "settler-descended whites" and later European migrants. (Though it really depends on the time period.) But the point that Roediger et al make is that there were social gradations within a broad "white" category. "White" was understood to mean "not black and not red [i.e. American Indian]." Uner the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo Mexican-Americans were classified as white. In fact the "white" category was so ambiguous in the nineteenth century that the Siamese twins Chang and Eng Bunker, who were not European at all, were legally classified as white in antebellum North Carolina, married white women, and owned slaves.

On your intermarriage argument that "'these laws were never applied to bar marriage between European ethnicities, like the Irish and settler-descended Anglo-Americans'." Yes, and in many Northern states there were no laws against the intermarriage of whites and blacks either! But obviously whites and blacks were considered separate races in the North regardless. Whatever the law unions of whites and blacks were exceptionally uncommon, just as in 1880 unions of Jews and WASPs or Italians and WASPs were exceptionally uncommon. (They occasionally occurred, obviously, because many things occur. There were also occasional white-black unions.) The existence or non-existence of laws prohibiting marriages between two groups doesn't really tell us if a group is considered white or not.

Your lynching evidence is extremely unconvincing. Lynching was overwhelmingly a Southern phenomenon but you don't have any data for immigrant/non-immigrant differentials in the South, so you look at the Midwest ... where the number of lynchings was so minuscule that making any point about the status of Irish/Italians/Jews etc from that data is extremely stupid. (The Tuskegee data source you cite says that in the entire 86-year period they cover, there were a total of 93 lynchings of white people total across the core Midwestern states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, so in the entire Midwest about one lynching of a white person per year for that period. How can you possibly reason off of that? I thought you were a statistician of some kind!)

I could go on but this is just a terribly argued post. Irish/Italian/Jewish immigrants to the US really were in a liminal category between white and non-white. Anyone who's studied US history can tell you that! Read primary sources, like the Southern travelogues of the landscape architect Frederick Law Olmsted (who talks about how slaves often got better treatment than Irish laborers). There was a popular joke among slaves in the South: "My master is a great tyrant. He treats me as badly as if I was a common Irishman."

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Antipopulist's avatar

Fantastic article. I'm very jealous that you can write something of this quality in <1 hr.

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