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Spencer's avatar

I had poor oral hygiene in my 20's. I didn't floss. And it became a problem by my late 20's- I had to have a root canal, another tooth needed a crown. Now, I'm almost 40 years old and I've rarely gone to the dentist over the last 5 because I floss and use a dental pick so thoroughly, I do not require much cleaning when I do go and I obviously have no cavities.

So, I am extemely skeptical of any claim that flossing doesn't work. Of course, you have to flossing properly and I actually remove far more food from my teeth with a pick-- I use those disposable flossing with floss on one end and a pick on thr other.

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ThomasOfHookton's avatar

It's a textbook case of the midwit "muh studies" meme.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Studies are imperfect and limited, by resources, biases, and the imagination/ingenuity of those conducting and funding them. Anyone except an overeducated fool can see that removing rotting food from between your teeth is better than not removing it, for all aspects of oral hygiene.

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KE's avatar

Had the same experience in my 30s. It's actually insane how much healthier my gums became once I started flossing regularly, although that's obviously not the same as caries. Went from having cavities every dental visit to maybe having one over a 10 year period, and it was all about changes in brushing/flossing.

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deadcanard's avatar

The linked cochrane review was withdrawn and replaced by https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012018.pub2/full. The conclusion is different. But at best the evidence is weak. Time will tell

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Ismaël Benslimane's avatar

I created a reddit community to follow Lantern bioworks progress, etc, if you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/lanternbioworks/

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MA_browsing's avatar

It all sounds encouraging, but couldn't the bioengineered strain of S. mutans re-evolve lactic acid production, and put us all back at square one? Presumably this trait evolved in the first place because it was adaptive from the bacteria's perspective?

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frenchh's avatar

Are there any reports or ideas to what could happen to our gut microbiomes? I couldn't find any sources that say much about second order effects, the reality is these haven't passed FDA trials and its bioengineering being marketed as a cosmetic. I'm still getting it lol, but I want to know.

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Capital Optimism's avatar

Most complicated advertorial I've ever read

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Cremieux's avatar

That's probably because it isn't one.

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Christopher Messina's avatar

I would like to see the peer-reviewed articles about it first. Thank you for the overview. I will dive in.

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Mike Sanislo's avatar

You received the treatment for free, yes?

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Wild Flower 🐝's avatar

OMG! Exciting news! This is a well written, beautifully researched, and highly intelligent article. I am grateful for the pertinent information and for a long anticipated source of essential/beneficial oral microbiota. I can stop swishing my kefir cultures in the off chance that those strains might target the opportunistic oral bacteria. We coexist synergistically with beneficial microbes. Learning how to introduce and to cultivate the various populations is a gift to the quality of life.

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Mallard's avatar

"We’ve come close to eliminating other diseases, but no other disease has officially been eliminated."

What about kuru?

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Cremieux's avatar

I'll tell you what someone else told me: "It's [a form of] CJD so give it time".

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Mallard's avatar

Could go for "Rise and Fill" for the pun.

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Christopher Messina's avatar

If this is true, this is wonderful. Has Big Dentistry sent ninjas to Honduras yet to burn down the lab?

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Doctor Hammer's avatar

Thanks for this write up. I recall reading about this sort of thing in 2005 or so, the company called Oragenics if I am remembering correctly. It could be a huge win if it is as advertised.

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Imperceptible Relics's avatar

This is probably the first Substack I've encountered that has a biochemical cycle figure in the article. The appearance to most readers, however, is that most advanced concepts appear inaccessible. I took 3 biochemistry courses in college, and think it is the most polymath interdisciplinary science of the 20th century. Yet most in the humanities (even though I side with them in many cases), see science as a wall of text, unfortunately. I wonder if most politicized views are just a poor aptitude at math. That said, in your Climate Change article (Feb 9th):

"Vlasceanu et al. recently published their evaluation of a massive 63-country global intervention tournament in which eleven expert-sourced interventions based on behavioral scientific findings were pitted head-to-head to see which would work best for improving climate change beliefs, bolstering environmental policy support, increasing information sharing intentions, and getting people to take action to save the climate."

I had to wrap my head around the numbers 63 and eleven, even though I routinely write sentences as long or longer than this. Placing emphasis on numbers and IQ is becoming unpopular, as this article recently shows: https://www.theintrinsicperspective.com/p/iq-discourse-is-increasingly-unhinged That said, one can still attempt to address valid numerical statistics in a slightly more accessible way, if that is the intention.

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Jon Cutchins's avatar

When will this be mandated? I'm excited about getting kicked off social media when I say that it is crap. Seriously though, seems like a bit of a Faucian bargain.

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ThomasOfHookton's avatar

Infesting your body with experimental bioengineered bacteria… what could possibly go wrong?

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John Henry Holliday, DDS's avatar

This is a really good analysis. Not related to caries, but the automatic extraction of wisdom teeth borders on criminal. They should be extracted on a case by case basis.

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Ratty's avatar

Amazing! I wonder if the treatment will also reduce the failure rate of existing fillings?

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Cremieux's avatar

To the extent those fail due to S. mutans' acidifying effects, it should help.

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Ashwyn's avatar

Wow. Do you still need to brush your teeth?

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Cremieux's avatar

Yes, because there are other reasons to brush your teeth than cavities alone.

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Top Shelf Theology's avatar

Got any studies on how much frequent liquor drinking helps? Because in the past year or two, I've sadly picked up drinking a whiskey with Coke Zero (aspartame, not sugar/high-fructose corn syrup, may also play a role) or two about 5 nights a week, and often I'm so tired afterward that I go straight to bed without brushing anymore... but the dentist still keeps giving me the same Great Teeth reviews!

Related, this line: "Paul Revere was well-known as a silversmith, and he was also a dentist."

Reminded me of this one hygienist that I HATED from my college years. My dad went to see her too. Little Latina old woman, and she was *aggressive* with the pick. My dad called her "The Blacksmith," haha... I'm sure Paul Revere was quite the effective, if not ruthless, dentist in his day, by the sounds of it!

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Donal Hanway's avatar

Hey Cremieux! Amazing article. Is there any risk to inhibiting S. mutans? Does it play any benefiicial roles in the microbiome? I'm wondering if there is any unintended consequences from disrupting the oral microbiome, such as weakened immune responses, or allowing more harmful microbes to thrive. It would be great to get your view. Thanks.

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